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Poster: fenario80 Date: Nov 1, 2008 11:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Speaking of plastic

Just to underline that point about the divisiveness, because I've been thinking about this a lot lately.

The right also has this lock on the public perception of patriotism, yet in a national presidential election they are willing to tell any number of outrageous lies about the left, actively encouraging Americans to despise and fear each other. That's about as unpatriotic as you can get.

On the other hand, Obama crafted an inclusive and completely centrist campaign, and stayed out of the gutter altogether. I don't know how he did it, but he did.

The bummer is that, even if Obama wins, and even if he should win by a lot, there are millions and millions of ordinary American people who are terrified that he will start to dismantle America. This is where the "patriots" on the right have brought us to. Obama is nobody's dream date: he's got big flaws, including all of the same big-backer obligations any president would have, including McCain. Things are not going to change all that much for most people.

Except that half the country - a quarter on each side - is "afraid" of what will happen if the other side wins. Which is why I adamently believe that the propagandists Karl Rove, and his protege Tim Griffin, who is advising the McCain campaign, can and should be tried for treason. They use lies and massive amounts of disinformation, openly support organized attempts at vote suppression and voter disenfranchisement, and incite the American people against itself. They are your model domestic terrorists.

Then they wear flag pins on their lapels. Wave that flag.

I pray that we will look back at the last eight years as that mad time when America was briefly hijacked - and fleeced clean - by private "military" interests, but I'm too afraid of what will happen if McCain wins.

Keep up the fight. In the long run, truth is stronger than fiction.

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Poster: spacedface Date: Nov 1, 2008 1:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Speaking of plastic

>>The bummer is that, even if Obama wins, and even if he should win by a lot, there are millions and millions of ordinary American people who are terrified that he will start to dismantle America. >>>

And yet they themselves are more likely to dismantle America.

If they criticize President Obama's (God willing) policy on war they WILL be guilty of giving aid and comfort to the enemy, and unless we change the laws they proposed and passed, they can be accused of being enemy combatants.

They should do what's right and support the constitution -- and get rid of the Bush/Cheney steps to fascism.

It goes beyond that too the economy: the right wing has poisoned the well and now ordinary citizens are expected to bail out the wealthy. Right wing ideology is used as weapon against themselves.

Let's hope the vote isn't as rigged as the last 2 elections. Someone's worried about it, since the US Army is now deployed inside the US "to help with civil unrest and crowd control."

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Poster: fenario80 Date: Nov 3, 2008 10:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Speaking of plastic

Hey spaced,

Thanks for that Salon link - terrifying stuff. My belief is that they can only steal it if it's close, and are rightly terrified of what will happen if they try to steal away a landslide. But the preparations alone are cause for great concern.

I'm wondering if Obama, if he wins, has any plans to roll back all the crazy new presidential powers Bush has given himself. That is just about the best thing he could do for the country: restore democracy by restoring the checks and balances the founders intended.

Although I personally think that all this talk of McCain still having a real chance is mostly just the media giving themselves something to talk about, I'm aware that ANYTHING can happen Tuesday.

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Nov 3, 2008 12:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Speaking of plastic

Hey Fenario,

I hear you, re: concerns about another stolen vote situation, but I truly believe this time...especially w/all the early voting that's already occurred...the dirty tricksters have no chance. I am completely confident that Obama will carry the day tomorrow, and even believe he will take previously red states like Indiana and NC.

However, I fully agree w/spacedface that if Obama does win, he must NOT succumb to the temptation to take the abuses the Bush presidency has now afforded the Executive branch and run wild with them just b/c he can.

What Bush/Cheney have done to erode Democracy all stems from their efforts,some successful, some not (the Habeas Corpus case they lost before the Supreme Court was a rare victory for Democracy in the past 8 years) to bring unprecedented power to the executive branch and destroy the checks and balances this country depends on. It matters not whether it's the left or right that upsets that balance, and I only hope Obama has the wisdom and self restraint and humility to realize that and act accordingly.

also, on a personal note, I would hate to see you leave this forum. It'll get back to the music eventually, and when it does, it would be nice to have all kind hands on deck.


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Poster: fenario80 Date: Nov 3, 2008 10:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Speaking of plastic

I sincerely hope you are right about tomorrow; at some level, I believe you are but I'm afraid to believe it. Like Charlie Brown and that football. And I agree 100% that would be the most confidence-restoring thing that he could do, that and opening the whole prison/torture/secret trial business. Let's hope he doesn't find it too "reassuring" to have all that wonderful power ...

I obviously haven't completely gone away, but I am done arguing. Thanks for the invite to stay. I have to say there are folks who could rightly object to any description of me as "kind" just about now. I expressed some of my feelings more strongly than is prudent or socially acceptable, but I freely admit that this election has me in a state.

I think I also went off a little too much because I don't come HERE for politics. I come here for Some Dark Hollow's latest 81 audience review, bluedevil's hilarious little notes all over the place, and that maniac who can't stop pushing 1969. Well, you get it. And I wouldn't mind at all if someone just expressed an opinion and moved along, but to see someone actively and somewhat relenlessly propagandizing this particular board with known fradulent and mis- information, well it did kind of put my panties in a bunch. I'm just fed up with the sheer reckless viciousness of the "new" politics. I'd hate us, too, if I believed half the things they said about us.